Hello and welcome, I’m Shauna Hoffman. I am so excited to welcome today’s guest on the podcast. Let me tell you a little bit about Lauren Abrams. She’s the founding member and managing partner of the law offices of Lauren Abrams. She has been exclusively protecting the rights of employees for over 22 years. Her heart and her practice is built around protecting the rights of others, but it is her podcast, 52 weeks of hope that brought me to invite her on the show. A weekly podcast, where you hear from thought leaders, activists, elders, and other visionaries who share their journeys through difficulties and uncertainty emerging, knowing that we don’t have to do this life thing alone. Now, do you see why I had to have her on the podcast? It’s my turn to hear from a visionary and ask her to share her very own journey to awareness. We have so much to explore.

Shauna (01:05):

Welcome, Lauren Abrams.

Lauren (01:07):

Thank you so much, Shauna. I’m so happy to be here with you today.

Shauna (01:10):

I’m so excited. First. I would like Lauren to tell us a little bit or a whole lot about her podcast. How did you come up with this? Where was the inspiration for 52 weeks of hope?

Lauren (01:23):

I would love to, and it didn’t start as a podcast. That’s for sure. It started from, um, my own dark place. When I was, I was in it. We all have our turn. Everybody goes through it. Um, it wasn’t my first, but it was surprising to me because I’m always grateful for my life. And here I was doing, doing the deal as a single mom, two kids. I have a law practice and, and I, I mentor at, I do a lot of service work and I’m doing the deal. And I went through a very tough time financially. It’s not that I, I just, the money wasn’t coming in. The law practice was thriving, but the way my practice goes, I have to pay my employees and I have to take care of everything. And I have full custody of both kids. And I didn’t know how I was going to feed them for a little while.

Lauren (02:08):

I don’t keep secrets. I make sure somebody knows what’s going on, but it was bad. And you get through it. We get through these things. We just do. I did the best I could anyway. So it was my turn and I was going through it. And I just was like, are you kidding me here? I am showing up every day doing what I’m supposed to do. And I was just kind of shocked by the whole experience. And I went through a hard time and, and I went to my spinning class with my favorite instructor, her name’s Angela. And she now has her own studio that opened right before the pandemic. It’s called army H a R M Y. But Angela is like, you close your eyes and I’m always in the back row. It’s pitch black and the music’s blaring and she’s so motivational. It’s insane. It’s like, can you close your eyes?

Lauren (02:52):

Big enough. Like you walk out of there knowing you can do anything, even if you don’t know what it is. And anyway, I was, I had one of those, a class left in your Keck. I don’t know how to S Q U E E. I never know how to pronounce that word, but I, I had some classes left and I was in there spinning, and she’s doing her Angela thing and I’m crying in the dark spinning. And all of a sudden she said, I don’t know who I’m talking to right now, but somebody needs to hear this. And she did her Angela thing and I’m crying and something in me shifted. And I knew I’d be okay. I didn’t know how I’d be. Okay. I didn’t know when I’d be okay. But I knew I would. I knew the universe I’d be taken care of somehow.

Lauren (03:26):

And, but I got through it and wait, once I got through it, as we do, we all get through everything is my experience. No matter what it is when we’re in it, we don’t think we will, but there’s always a sliver of light. As long as we tell somebody and don’t sit in it and not tell anyone is what I think is one of the keys. But anyway, I thought, what the hell was that? I really, I look back. I was like, what the hell is that? Is this what life is? We go through these things. We come out of it. We go through it to other, and then we have joy of course and stuff. And then what we get old and we die. Like, what the hell? And so I decided I was going to go and ask a person a week for a year.

Lauren (04:02):

I would just interview a person a week for a year and say, okay, you’ve lived a lot longer than I have. What have you learned? Like, tell me, what is the point here? I don’t get it. I look, I do graduate list every morning. I do the deal. I read a Tate. And so I started interviewing a person a week for a year, just for me to fill my soul because I didn’t get it. I had gone through this period and I’m not a depressive type at all. This is not like some kind of depression. I was just like, so I’d go home and I’d write up after interviewing somebody, I’d write it up for my, to my girlfriend and my verbiage. So it’d be kind of funny. And just for me, this is what this one said and this and that after a while, the start being common themes.

Lauren (04:44):

And I was like, okay, this is good. This is so rich. And it’s filling my soul, but I can’t, I have to share it. It’s just too good. And so I thought I’m going to make it into a book. You know, one of those books where you open it up and there it is, what a miracle, it’s just what I needed, or you close it and open it again. And like, that’s the chapter I needed. And so I for the chapters are on my web and I thought 52 weeks of hope. That’s 52 weeks. Cause I’m interviewing a person a week for 52 weeks for the chapters, from my website, 32 weeks of hope.com and COVID, and all of that. So the book isn’t done it will be. And I did a pivot because that’s what we do. We pivot. And I started my podcast, which I love people talk about the hardest challenge they’ve overcome, how they did it, their message of hope and know really like, what would you tell somebody having a hard time getting out of bed today? You know, just a simple thing. And I love it. And sometimes I think, why aren’t you doing those things? You’re learning in the fog. Yeah. What is going? Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, and I’ve learned to be really gentle with myself also during this time,

Shauna (05:47):

You know, it’s so interesting because in our last interview with Massimo Noja DeMarco, he spoke about so many of the same things that you’re discussing. And he went through a lot of times loss and the word pivot became a really important word. He would say at the end, he learned that he would only allow himself four days to get caught in the Meyer. And then he would pivot that episode’s called a constant state of goosebumps. Ooh, good title, which I got when you were talking about your story when you were talking about the fact that you decided that you wanted to talk to other people and what a difference it made for you the minute I, I heard you say that all of a sudden I got a constant state of goosebumps. It was perfect. You said, there’s this common theme. Something else that you said that I think is really important is that you reached out to other people. And when you say you don’t have to do this alone and that the most important thing that you realized is that keeping it inside and not getting help from others, you weren’t going to be able to pivot you. Weren’t going to, going to be able to make that change.

Lauren (06:56):

Absolutely. And, and so, which is a good segue to your question, you just asked the most common theme is community that we need community, which is in the blue zones where people live the longest and have the highest happiness factor in the world. The four areas in the world where that’s true community is the reason, the second biggest theme nobody is going to like is putting down our phones and connecting eyes to eyes, no phone. Um, that’s the second one. They, you know, we, we need to do that. Even if it’s on zoom, like we are right now, we can see each other. Somebody said, do you always do your interviews on video? I said, absolutely. How am I going to connect? If I can’t see the person, I don’t even know them. And I feel like I’m BFF by the end of an interview. If I’m a guest or if I’m interviewing somebody, like, I’m like, Oh, we can hang out after we don’t. I mean, that’s, it’s a feeling like you’re, you’re smiling right now. If somebody, cause I figured most people listen because yeah, it’s just this feeling. It’s the connection that we get from this.

Shauna (07:52):

That’s also something that has been such a challenge for the last year because community and family and having someone that you can look in their eyes and they get you. I mean, I had friends that can look at me while we’re hanging out and say, Oh Shauna, I see your nose flaring. Something’s going on with you or, Oh yeah, you’re tapping your foot. So you’re not talking to me about something. And it’s so important. And community has become such a challenge in the last year and getting it back. How do we get it back after all of this?

Lauren (08:28):

I think doing this right now, this is how, this is absolutely how, and it’s one of my big questions, especially to like rabbi chase. And I, we talked, I talked about that because he has an entire congregation or I talked to, well, I’ve talked to a lot of religious leaders. So they have communities. I talked to jihad, Turk, which was a learning experience. Cause I called him [inaudible], which means faith. Anyway, it’s one of the two. So I, you know, and I expected him fully garbed in and he looked like a dad, you know, like anybody in LA, like anyway, it’s, it’s all alerting experience. And uh, yeah, which he is a dad, by the way, he’s got a bunch of kids, you know? Like

Shauna (09:12):

I love that. What the guests, what the listeners can’t see right now. And one of the things that I love about equal and Lauren is one of them is that when she smiles, which she has been doing through this whole podcast, her eyes closed. And to me, that’s one of them, you get the squint. When you’re you smile really big to me, that’s one of the most endearing things about someone. So I’ll grab a picture of everybody and, and put it up so you guys can all see Lauren,

Lauren (09:39):

That’s so funny. And so one of my first guests was Karen Donaldson and she’s a confidence coach and everything else, but she also is a body language expert. And if somebody is on zoom and they go like this on their nose, if they touch their nose now, I mean like this, I don’t mean like sniffles. It means they’re lying or about to lie, which I found to be the most fascinating thing. So I keep waiting to interview somebody that I don’t really, I don’t know most people and have them touch their nose. Right. And if you’re online dating, you want to know that she gave other clues for online dating about like, you couldn’t tell if they’re into you or if they’re not, she does stuff like for women’s magazines, I guess like how you can tell with celebrities with their body positioning, if they’re into each other, if they’re sleeping together, at least,

Shauna (10:23):

Okay. That’s hysterical. You’re going to have to write, you’re going to have to let me know which podcast that is. Karen Donaldson.

Lauren (10:31):

It’s on my it’s on my Website. Okay.

Lauren (10:36):

It’s so fun. Well, plus it’s she does really, really great confidence coaching. It’s great, it’s a great episode anyway, just for confidence in how to walk in a room. And even if you’re not feeling it, but she tells you how to, she tells you how to feel it. She just, she doesn’t believe in fake it till you make it, which I believe in.

Shauna (10:53):

But I, I kind of do, which brings us to this amazing discussion for today. And that is the imposter syndrome. I mean, what a perfect segue that was. Yeah.

Lauren (11:03):

Yeah. That was, wasn’t it. That was good. You did well. You did that one. Yeah.

Shauna (11:09):

Well, talk to us about the imposter syndrome. I’ve had a few people bring this up lately and for them, you know, keeping the confidence, presenting yourself with total confidence on the job, or even at a date, or even with your family when you’re having an argument, but inside feeling like you are not truly presenting yourself in a genuine way.

Lauren (11:33):

Okay. So it’s, I think the imposter syndrome is the getting found out, Oh my gosh, they’re going to find out I’m not all that. Or I would walk around 10 years practicing law. I remember being in a courthouse going, Oh my God, all these people think I’m a lawyer. I am a lawyer. I went to good schools. I put myself through. Yeah. But it’s that whole, I’m going to get found out. People, people get a job and they got this great job. And before they start, they’re going to, they’re going to find out that I was like faking it the whole time. But if you have imposter syndrome, you’re in fabulous company, you should be really proud of yourself because Michelle Obama, Maya Angelou, Sheryl Sandberg, all talk about having imposter syndrome of these great people. And it’s after they’ve made it, they still, like my Angela would say, Oh, now that I’m going to get fired, like way after she was famous.

Lauren (12:24):

I wrote an article on it and I did a bunch of research. And there’s to say, you have to take a quiz. Nobody has to take a quiz. We know that feeling in our gut like that’s where I get it. And I think most of us get it like that. Oh, and what is it? It’s fear. It’s fear, fear that I’m not good enough or I’m not gonna make it or any of that stuff. And it’s copping to it, owning it and walking through the fear and doing it anyway. That is the only way to get through the imposter syndrome. If you’re in a family situation, I think this is your area, but it’s saying I’m really uncomfortable right now. I mean, sometimes I don’t know how I feel, especially around family because it stirs up all that.

Shauna (13:03):

And in full disclosure, when I first started this podcast, talk about imposter syndrome. I thankfully at the beginning, I wasn’t interviewing other people. But even today I said to my husband, why do I get nervous interviewing someone that I really don’t know in person, someone who I really want on the show, someone who I really want to get their insight, but I still have a level of imposter syndrome. Maybe they’re going to figure out that I’m not really an interviewer. And it’s funny how each of us have to take a look.

Lauren (13:44):

Yeah. It means you care. It means you care. If you didn’t have it, you wouldn’t care. I, I really, that that’s my opinion, but I take that as a good sign. When I get all that nervousness I’ve done, I’ve had to speak before and I just always take that to me and I care. And, and then I do visualization. I picture myself really enjoying myself, really engaged when I’m starting to really end doing deep breathing and, and to try to relax, not fast, like to breathe in God or higher power or whatever, like the universe, just that calming spirit and to breathe out my fear and to do it slowly. So I don’t hyperventilate and, and freeze it in. And just to do that a little bit and, and just to try to picture myself here right now, like now in the interview and being fully present and enjoying it and trying to be of service and saying exactly what whoever’s listening needs to hear. And if we help one person, then it’s absolutely worth our time. And then walking through my fear. And I just think it’s because we care. That’s why I think we feel the fear. That’s my opinion. Do you think that

Shauna (14:52):

Perhaps, maybe journaling before some important event asking yourself questions? What are the kinds of questions that someone could ask themselves or process that they can go through journaling maybe to get past the imposter syndrome for some important event?

Lauren (15:09):

I think journaling, it would, you could ask questions or you could just free write, what am I afraid of? And then I do God, please lead my pen and honesty and then write. And I don’t type because I was taught it’s from the heart, through my pen or pencil or pen, whoever. I mean, I have a pencil is when my kids were in elementary school. But, um, and then just to write, there’s no right or wrong way that nobody’s going to see it. Don’t look at the penmanship or the, this or that. And just write and write and then just breathe. I have a free ebook on my website, but I don’t know. It’s more about just trying to get in touch with what is it that I really want?

Shauna (15:48):

Oh, I love that because that’s so much of the, I think the fear and the confusion and not being able to commit to something, not being able to commit to your dreams because you’re not very clear on them yet, which is okay. Absolutely. Okay. Because we change our focus on our dreams all the time, based on things that happen in our life. You said something, what was the line that you just said about,

Lauren (16:13):

Please, God, please lead my pen and honesty. Yeah. And that that’s. So my free ebook is how to be your best self now. And that’s in there, it’s on my website. It’s and it’s, it’s more about getting clear on what it is you want at the end.

Shauna (16:27):

And I want to come back and ask you where people can get a hold of you, how the things that you have on your site, your website, and all of that. That’s so great. Thank you so much. So with the imposter syndrome, I talk a lot about genuine self. How does the imposter syndrome and genuine self have anything to do with one another?

Lauren (16:48):

Again, I’m going to bring it right back to fear and we’re trying to be ourselves and it’s being afraid of, and, and it’s pronate Brown and being vulnerable and walking through all of that, but really the more vulnerable we are, the more people identify it like us. And remember us, I have been more vulnerable to it through 52 weeks of hope. I mean, I’ve always an open book and everything with people I meet, well, generally not. It’s not my law practice. Um, I mean, you know, it’s not about me. It’s about my right. It’s not about me with that, with this, because if I can help people, then I will like the fact that I don’t drink anymore, but I haven’t for more than half my life. I mean, it’s been years it’s coming up on 35 years since I drank anything or anything like that. But I’ve always been very, very quiet about it. Cause I didn’t want to be judged by that. Nobody cares only me. This is the thing, the stuff that you’re most afraid about anybody knowing or okay. My financial, the thing that got me to do 52 weeks of hope that I had all these financial problems. That was my source of shame. Like you can’t even believe it.

Shauna (17:59):

Shame is such an interesting piece of the whole process. Yeah, I think shame. And uh, self-awareness because when you’re saying I have to look at my fear, I have to acknowledge my fear in order to acknowledge that in the first place, you really have to be able to be self-aware. And that is such a first step in any kind of change. It’s really looking at yourself, really being able to, I always say, what do you really feel right now? And if people are afraid to look at what they are really feeling, they can not get to the next step.

Lauren (18:37):

True. But also if you don’t know what you’re feeling Google feelings list. I have a list because I grew up talking about feelings. I mean, some people, my kids, I interviewed Rabbi Jill Zimmerman. She did. And she’s older than we are. And her mom must’ve been the most amazing person ever because she grew up talking about her feelings. I was so amazed. She said, well, we, we grew up talking about our feelings of like, I still have a feelings list. Cause I mean, half the time, like there are so many of them that I,

Shauna (19:07):

You know, there’s a feelings chart that I use, the feelings chart, everybody go Google feelings chart. I use it a lot for men.

Lauren (19:18):

I do in my relationship. Are you kidding me? I’m like, I now know that’s not a feeling. You can’t say that. And um, yeah. Um,

Shauna (19:26):

There’s such a difference between a thought and a feeling and for children, children, don’t just like you’re saying they don’t know what they’re feeling. So when I pull out the feeling chart, which has all of these cute little faces on it, I know that one. It’s amazing because the kids can point to it and say, I feel like that. And men do. I have men that really are like, I never really realized that I am not in touch with my feelings. I logically try to solve all my problems first without knowing what I’m feeling

Lauren (20:00):

By saying the things that I thought like my financial when I went through the financial stuff or, or anything else that is me being genuine and nobody judged me on it. But for me and when I, and when I clear away all that stuff and I, that part of me is talking to that part of you. That’s connection. That’s how we get community. And that

Shauna (20:25):

Real that’s being vulnerable. That’s being genuine. It’s so interesting too because when you are like that, you can immediately feel when the other person has a judgment and you, then you have the ability to see how do you want to move forward with that person? What kind of relationship do you want to have with that person? I am all about if you can’t be with someone, what is the point? And it’s hard in business. It really is hard in business because you do have to sometimes put on a different mask.

Lauren (20:57):

Sometimes she’s shaking her head. Talk to us. Sometimes I actually I’m me. I am. To me, I might not say nobody wants to hire a lawyer who was, and actually it had no bearing on the way I practiced my profession. It had to do with my home. I am me in my legal profession. I am

Shauna (21:17):

Talking about being vulnerable. COVID has made us also vulnerable. I think there’s a lot of people who have come out of this or are coming out of this with a very different perspective on life. A very different perspective in what is important and how they want to proceed with everything in their life. All right. So we’re almost out of time already. I can’t believe it. What would you like to leave the listeners thinking about?

Lauren (21:45):

Well, my message of hope is that everything always works out. It just does. It’s not on our timetable. It might not be in the way our limited vision would see it, but it just works out. And that is my message of hope.

Shauna (21:59):

I just want everybody to go listen to her podcast. Last question. What is the one that affected you the most in the biggest way? That is the first one that they should go listen to.

Lauren (22:10):

Ooh, that’s hard because it depends where I’m at any given time. I mean, there are so many. Yeah. Each test each have little nuggets. Like I love the end, uh, jihad, Turk, Reverend Jill Zimmerman has this, but Karen Donaldson. Oh my gosh. And if you’re dating, I have, I’m not even dating. I mean, I’m certainly not D I mean, I haven’t dated in a year, so don’t worry, Scott. Um, I mean, it’s just for years, but I was fascinated. Why COVID is the best time for dating? I have every Mark has an Ariel Ford, both talking about it. Like they are amazing, but I mean, it’s not like I was using that. And FMR cats got very real at the end of his, nothing about dating about men, single men in particular right now, and what they’re going through. And that was kind of pretty deep. So, I mean, it’s so hard to say, and then I have two that haven’t come out yet. Mike Alden and Paula that are so phenomenal. And I mean, they’re unbelievable that are in the next couple of weeks.

Shauna (23:11):

Oh, I’m so excited. All right. What is the best way for them to find the podcast to find your free ebook?

Lauren (23:18):

It’s on the website, 52 weeks of hope.com that makes it so easy.

Shauna (23:22):

52. And it’s the number five. Yes.

Lauren (23:25):

Yes. It is 52 weeks of hope.com and um, yeah, there’s a new blog post on there that that’s, I think my favorite one, there’s also one on imposter syndrome. If you want to read about it and there’s a bunch of,

Shauna (23:37):

I could talk to you forever and I want to, so Hey, you guys, I might actually, you know, cut recording and keep her on the video chat. You are such a lovely human being. You bring so much hope to people, truly 52 weeks of hope. I can. I think I’m going to start listening to 52 weeks. I want to do the next year of hope. So I’m going to specifically commit to one a week, pick a day, everybody pick a day that you always need a little pick me up. I was talking to somebody yesterday and they were saying that Sundays were always very hard for them in the evenings because of what Monday might bring. So I think I’m going to do my 52 weeks of hope on Friday morning so that I can have an amazing weekend after a week of work.

I cannot thank you enough for being a guest on the show. And I hope all of you go out and listen to the podcast. You know what I always say to you, please be good to yourselves. Please surround yourself with loving beings. Please eat the most amazing healthy foods and drink a ton of water. And in this time, get a lot of sleep. Be genuine to yourself. I thank you for letting us into your lives this week. And I look forward to popping back in again next week.

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE CONTENT DISCUSSED…

• A Journey to Awareness Podcast: All Episodes

• Shauna’s website: https://www.workingonme.com

WHEN DOES IT AIR…

APRIL 10, 2021